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NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:24 pm
by Bacchus
I'm redoing my pedalboard. Right at the front I have
McPherson Red Boost
McPherson Red Llama clone
Fuzz Factory clone
MBM Dream Box
Polytune 2
(the above is all true bypass)
Then into a Boss DD-3 for buffery goodness before going around the rest of the board.
Those five pedals at the top (six? Dream Box is a double pedal?) mean that I should put my Fredric Klon buffer in there somewhere? If so, where? Can't go before the Fuzz Factory, is a Dream Box buffer fussy? (bussffry)
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:50 pm
by Doog
I mean, ultimately, you don't NEED to, right? It's just about keeping top end in your signal. If it doesn't bother you, then shrug emoji?
What order are they in?
As someone who likes top end a lot, I'd definitely put a buffer as near to the start of your signal as possible, maybe after the FF if it's first/second after the tuner. I guess how you're combining your pedals will define if this is possible though.
I don't think the Dreambox would be bufferfussy (fuffy? bussy?), I've not heard of Muff circuits being so, can't speak for the MXR section of the circuit though.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:02 pm
by Bacchus
They're in the order I posted. I set about putting the Klon buffer between the Fuzz Factory and the Dream Box, then decided, fuck it, I've got plenty of pedal board real estate, I'll go full Klon in there. So now the front is:
McPherson Red Boost
McPherson Red Llama clone
Fuzz Factory clone
MBM Klon
MBM Dream Box
Polytune 2
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:09 pm
by Doog
Ah gotcha, wasn't sure, especially with the tuner at the end? I get it (as it makes a nice "completely mute everything" switch), but means you gotta turn off shit to get that PURE TUNING TONE. Horse/courses.
Do you often run the Red Llama and/or Red Boost into the FF?? Sounds like it would be deliciously messy, I can definitely see the benefit in having a FF set less aggressively, and just boosting into it when you need to.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:16 pm
by Bacchus
Doog wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:09 pm
Ah gotcha, wasn't sure, especially with the tuner at the end? I
get it (as it makes a nice "completely mute everything" switch), but means you gotta turn off shit to get that PURE TUNING TONE. Horse/courses.
Do you often run the Red Llama and/or Red Boost into the FF?? Sounds like it would be deliciously messy, I can definitely see the benefit in having a FF set less aggressively, and just boosting into it when you need to.
The tuner is a useful mute (particularly useful if I'm dicking around with FF drones. Handy to have a mute, and I'm wondering if it can help me pitch them??? let's see!)
Red Boost into the Llama is deliciously messy. In fact, any two of the three are brilliant together, and the three at the same time is crazy.
Typing this out, I question why I put the Dream Box on there... I suppose I want that smooth fuzz that the IC Muff gives.
After a few hours' work, it's all plumbed in. Now gearing up for that heartbreaking moment when you try it for the first time and discover that one of the many patch cables isn't working, then, once it is, there's a weird hum/buzz coming from something.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:10 pm
by Bacchus
It works! and bypass sounds great. All that treble is still there. Probably, I dunno, I have my amp set pretty bassy anyway.
The OC-3 seems to be causing noises, though. I've tried putting it on its own supply from the Iso Brick, but it's still doing it. Maybe it doesn't like being so close the brick, which I assume contains transformers and other mysterious electrickery.
I might have a read of the Iso Brick's manual, make sure that all the outlets on it are in fact fully isolated.
- pb1 copy.jpeg (1.77 MiB) Viewed 2347 times
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:37 pm
by NickS
"Each of the Iso-Brick Power Supply's 10 outputs is fully isolated, eliminating gig-ending ground loop noise. Whether analog or digital, positive or negative ground, this power box has you covered."
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:39 pm
by Bacchus
Yeah, just read that. I've read around and found other people who have had noise issues with the OC-3.
I'll leave it for now and see how annoying it actually is in a band setting. There's also the option of the noise gate in the M13.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:56 pm
by dots
great thread.
i'm wondering if this might be part of an occasional issue i have with my board that i think i've narrowed down to the moollon buffered boost ultratwin gave me many years back.
sometimes when i first fire everything up, switching between pedals will yield a crackle and choking sound that used to freak me out. when it happens now, i just turn the volume on the moollon up all the way and then back to where i need it, and the problem goes away.
it's not that big an issue, but i admittedly don't play for long stretches and would get really annoyed it it happened during a show or full practice as opposed to just noodling on my own for 20 - 30 minutes.
could the placement in the chain be the issue? it comes after all the dirt with the exception of the two fuzzes.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:25 pm
by Hurb
dots wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:56 pm
great thread.
i'm wondering if this might be part of an occasional issue i have with my board that i think i've narrowed down to the moollon buffered boost ultratwin gave me many years back.
sometimes when i first fire everything up, switching between pedals will yield a crackle and choking sound that used to freak me out. when it happens now, i just turn the volume on the moollon up all the way and then back to where i need it, and the problem goes away.
it's not that big an issue, but i admittedly don't play for long stretches and would get really annoyed it it happened during a show or full practice as opposed to just noodling on my own for 20 - 30 minutes.
could the placement in the chain be the issue? it comes after all the dirt with the exception of the two fuzzes.
It could be something I have heard of happening but don't know how legit it is. But a build up of static or something by having your patch cables plugged in all the time....people recommended pulling patch cables and reinserting. But if the moollon gets rid of it?
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:47 pm
by Bacchus
That sounds sort of probable, but also sort of unlikely, if everything is properly grounded (I'd have thought, I don't understand electricity if I'm honest).
I blame a build up of ROCK.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:02 pm
by Hurb
yes could quite easily be bollocks!
The m13 has the option for buffered bypass too. I take it you have that option ticked?
If able to record the board into the pc, I always record direct in from guitar then record with pedalboard hooked up (everything off) and compare to see what signal loss I have/haven't got.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:22 pm
by plopswagon
Maybe too many covers of Cracklin’ Rose?
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:34 pm
by dots
Hurb wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:25 pm
dots wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:56 pm
great thread.
i'm wondering if this might be part of an occasional issue i have with my board that i think i've narrowed down to the moollon buffered boost ultratwin gave me many years back.
sometimes when i first fire everything up, switching between pedals will yield a crackle and choking sound that used to freak me out. when it happens now, i just turn the volume on the moollon up all the way and then back to where i need it, and the problem goes away.
it's not that big an issue, but i admittedly don't play for long stretches and would get really annoyed it it happened during a show or full practice as opposed to just noodling on my own for 20 - 30 minutes.
could the placement in the chain be the issue? it comes after all the dirt with the exception of the two fuzzes.
It could be something I have heard of happening but don't know how legit it is. But a build up of static or something by having your patch cables plugged in all the time....people recommended pulling patch cables and reinserting. But if the moollon gets rid of it?
i'll try that, basically just re-seating the cables next time it happens. now, is the thinking that you need to unplug/reinsert all of them, or just those in and around the buffered pedal? if it's all, that could get wonky given the number of boxes we're talking right now.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:39 am
by Hurb
Not sure to be fair, if its not bollocks I would think many of them as you would unplug the guitar and amp leads regularly anyway so obviously that isn't fixing it.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:32 am
by Bacchus
If you're unplugging every pedal, I don't see how that's all that that much more convenient that just doing away with the board.
I also struggle to see how leaving a cable that's ultimately earthed to the amp plugged in could cause static to increase.
Having said that, I spend a lot of time on hifi/vinyl-nerd forums where people advise that once you're washed the static off your records, you need to make sure that all of it goes down the plug hole and none of it hangs around.... So my level of knowledge here is ... limited.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:59 pm
by plopswagon
I find it’s important to shield the spindle hole.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:51 pm
by NickS
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:31 pm
by NickS
If wiggling or replugging the cable helps, it sounds more like oxidis/zation on the contacts. I've had power connectors affect the noise/hum in a signal chain, improving if I wiggled the power connector. I have found that the Digitech Drop introduces some whine if not fed isolated power.
(I have had a Neutrik silent plug with the spring-loaded muting collar work itself free through vibration, which is a bummer during a set)
I'm just about to make up some more cables for home studio use with Van Damme cable I got cheap in Maplins' closing-down sale and some die-cast metal Amphenol ACPM-RB black right-angled plugs.
Re: NOOB Help: Do I Need a Buffer?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:21 pm
by Hurb
NickS wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:31 pm
If wiggling or replugging the cable helps, it sounds more like oxidis/zation on the contacts. I've had power connectors affect the noise/hum in a signal chain, improving if I wiggled the power connector. I have found that the Digitech Drop introduces some whine if not fed isolated power.
that might actually be more like what I read ....
