and sonic youth screwed more vintage jags and stangs than anyone else in the world... maybe that was his lesson he lernt from them:-)Sublimedo wrote:thats pretty true, actually. i think he was too much of a sonic youth fan to let go of those offsets.
.
Is this Kurts Mustang?
Moderated By: mods
I don't know, I don't care, all I know is you can take me there
Cobain owned offset guitars before his Fenders. Univox hi-fliers are jagged and offset, no matter which way to play them.downer wrote:and sonic youth screwed more vintage jags and stangs than anyone else in the world... maybe that was his lesson he lernt from them:-)Sublimedo wrote:thats pretty true, actually. i think he was too much of a sonic youth fan to let go of those offsets.
.
I doubt sonic youth care about what they've done to countless Fender's, as they were using them way before it was "cool" to. When people couldnt sell those guitars for much.
Besides, if someone mod's a vintage guitar, and that guitar becomes their LIFELONG favorite, Who really cares then???
But it's different when these kids fuck up a vintage Jag, and then sell them because they didn't get the Nirvana sound.
-
dots
- BADmin (he/him)
- Posts: 1022098
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:16 pm
- Location: Esco-A-Go-Go
- Contact:
does this really happen a lot, though? i hear people mentioning it, but most of the butchered jags we see posted on this site had their damage done years and years ago. it seems to me that vintage guitars have gotten so expensive that it's cost prohibitive to do it all that much anymore (unless you have more money than sense).65fenvox wrote:But it's different when these kids fuck up a vintage Jag, and then sell them because they didn't get the Nirvana sound.
i dunno, but this whole hysteria about people ruining old guitars is like an episode of "everybody loves raymond". people swear it's out there, but i've managed to avoid seeing it.
I will be the first to admit that I do my share of ruining guitars. The first thing I do to any guitar I buy is rip out the electronics and wire them up to my own specs. This includes replacing the bridge pickup, switches if needed,volume pot, tone pot and input jack. I save all the replaced parts to each guitar so they can be put back in, but the guitar is not original at that point. Thankfully I have found a pickup that doesn't need the body to be routed, so I never destroy the integrity of it. Really it doesn't matter to me how much the guitar cost. I fell in love with the Mustang when they could be had for 150 bucks and 350 was a rip off. It's only been recent years that the prices have been skyrocketing. These days I still don't care, it can be dead stock vintage, if I can't use it, it's worth nothing to me.dots wrote:does this really happen a lot, though? i hear people mentioning it, but most of the butchered jags we see posted on this site had their damage done years and years ago. it seems to me that vintage guitars have gotten so expensive that it's cost prohibitive to do it all that much anymore (unless you have more money than sense).65fenvox wrote:But it's different when these kids fuck up a vintage Jag, and then sell them because they didn't get the Nirvana sound.
i dunno, but this whole hysteria about people ruining old guitars is like an episode of "everybody loves raymond". people swear it's out there, but i've managed to avoid seeing it.
Life is "Pointless......but manageable"
The 80's were a bleak time for the guitar market. Superstrats were in, Fender sales were low, and they were adapting to fit into the shred-axe market with dissapointing results. The future of the company was unknown. These "vintage jags" were 14-20 year old pawnshop fodder that were totally out of style. Someone tried to modernize one a bit, probably to cawk-rawk out on a budget. I really don't think they understood that Fender would re-emerge as a nostalgia-based, reissue-fueled megalomart and that some no-solo version of hard rock would bring surf-related 60's guitars back in a big way, by which point of course the guitars are starting to get pretty old, pre-CBS nuts get less selective with the models they're into, the "vintage fender" market explodes, and people trying to get teh kurdtz look like blaspheming douchebags.
Imagine if stock, mint condition versions of Squier '51s started going for the future equivalent of 2 grand in 30-odd years. Some of you would remember your project threads in a less positive light.
Imagine if stock, mint condition versions of Squier '51s started going for the future equivalent of 2 grand in 30-odd years. Some of you would remember your project threads in a less positive light.
Aug wrote:which one of you bastards sent me an ebay question asking if you can get teh kurdtz with that 64 mustang?
robertOG wrote:fran & paul are some of the original gangstas of the JS days when you'd have to say "phuck"
I will go a step further. When Fender reissued the Duosonic in the 90's they were 180 bucks brand new. They were and still are complete garbage and now I've seen people ask for upwards of 300 for em'. I also remember a time when a Kay, Silvertone, Danelectro, and the like couldn't be given away. They would hang on pawn shop walls for years and were all (imho) pieces of junk. Just because they have a few more years under their belts does not make them any better.paul_ wrote:Imagine if stock, mint condition versions of Squier '51s started going for the future equivalent of 2 grand in 30-odd years. Some of you would remember your project threads in a less positive light.
Age does not = quality.
Life is "Pointless......but manageable"
-
dots
- BADmin (he/him)
- Posts: 1022098
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:16 pm
- Location: Esco-A-Go-Go
- Contact:
excellent points, rod & paul. in fact, that's pretty much the conclusion i've reached as well. it seems to me the logical conclusion of the current bandwagon (at least around here anyway) is that NO guitar should ever be modified. if you want something other than stock, build it yourself rather than demolishing what is (or at least is sure to be) a closet classic in mere years.
i say fuck that mentality. guitars aren't shrines, nor are they sacred unto themselves. i mean, if you do happen upon a true relic from decades ago that has not gone under somebody's knife, it makes at least good economic sense to leave it how it is. however, i would submit that most of the "damage" to these classics was done much the way rod's describing. . . years ago, before the guitars were considered hallowed trophies, and in much the same way we'd buy a mexi or jap strat for the very purpose of hot-rodding it.
again, FUCK that. cheap guitars -- no matter when they're built or how cool they become in the future -- are meant to be cut up because they are cheap. and simply dropping a new pup in an axe does not equal cutting it up, either.
i say fuck that mentality. guitars aren't shrines, nor are they sacred unto themselves. i mean, if you do happen upon a true relic from decades ago that has not gone under somebody's knife, it makes at least good economic sense to leave it how it is. however, i would submit that most of the "damage" to these classics was done much the way rod's describing. . . years ago, before the guitars were considered hallowed trophies, and in much the same way we'd buy a mexi or jap strat for the very purpose of hot-rodding it.
again, FUCK that. cheap guitars -- no matter when they're built or how cool they become in the future -- are meant to be cut up because they are cheap. and simply dropping a new pup in an axe does not equal cutting it up, either.
Before they made humbucker pickups that fit into single coil bodies the only option you had was to cut the body. The guitars didn't cost much and it didn't matter if you cut it as long as you could get the sound you were after. Most modded vintage guitars I've seen had the mods done well before any Nervana fever. There are a few of my ex-guitars out there in the world I owned in the 80's, that have humbuckers in them before duncan invented the hotrail. I paid around 350 bucks for my blue 69' (and thought it was a ripoff) and replaced the pickup, I spent nearly 2 grand on my orange 69' and the first thing I did was tear out the stock electronics. I've got a sound I like out of my guitars and I want them all to sound the same.dots wrote:again, FUCK that. cheap guitars -- no matter when they're built or how cool they become in the future -- are meant to be cut up because they are cheap. and simply dropping a new pup in an axe does not equal cutting it up, either.
Life is "Pointless......but manageable"
I'm gonna try and answer all of the last few posts at once.rodvonbon wrote:Before they made humbucker pickups that fit into single coil bodies the only option you had was to cut the body. The guitars didn't cost much and it didn't matter if you cut it as long as you could get the sound you were after. Most modded vintage guitars I've seen had the mods done well before any Nervana fever. There are a few of my ex-guitars out there in the world I owned in the 80's, that have humbuckers in them before Duncan invented the hotrail. I paid around 350 bucks for my blue 69' (and thought it was a ripoff) and replaced the pickup, I spent nearly 2 grand on my orange 69' and the first thing I did was tear out the stock electronics. I've got a sound I like out of my guitars and I want them all to sound the same.dots wrote:again, FUCK that. cheap guitars -- no matter when they're built or how cool they become in the future -- are meant to be cut up because they are cheap. and simply dropping a new pup in an axe does not equal cutting it up, either.
I recently saw a '64 sunburst Jag with humbuckers sell (or didn't sell) on eBay. I cant seem to find the link. But it was a MINT '64 with Dimarzio/Duncan creme humbuckers and a changed pick guard. The owner routed the body, but spared the pick guard!?!?
That was useless as Jag pups screw straight into the body. I never saw the end of the auction, but it wasn't doing well as the person wanted mint jag value, for a heavily modded guitar.
Its even true in Cobain's case, the owner that sold it to him was trying to turn his Jaguar into a Les Paul! Its clear in my mind.
I bought the body, neck and pick guard of a '65 Jaguar. The last owner routed it for a bride humbucker. He solved the only thing that I hate about Jaguars, which are the bridge single coils.
I have since managed to replace the screws, including neck screws with vintage ones. Then ordered new jaguar chrome plates and an American made tremolo. It is not nearly complete and has a very unique beaten up finish, but I love it.
It still needs a Jag neck pup, switches, electronics and a full humbucker (I have a British made black hotrails and a vintage Mustang bridge in it right now as I couldn't stand to wait to play it)
Since I love this guitar so much, I'm gonna just mod it the way I want. I will never sell it. And I'm not gonna feel bad as the damage was already done when the last owner, a huge Nirvana site owner/runner, sold it in pieces even though I offered to buy it a few weeks/months before.
I see it as the same as my '66 Mustang which I got cheap because of its refined paint. I will do whatever I want (not too much) to these guitars as I will NEVER sell them. Basically I just add bridge buckers and 500k pots. And because I'm not one that expects a Gibson sound out of them, I know where they fit perfectly, sound wise.
As for those cheap, Kay's and Silvertones and others, they should all be thrown on a huge bonfire! Like those women who burn there bra's! They are toys, and a completely wrong for someone looking to even learn guitar and develop an ear for tone.
FIRE!!!
-
dots
- BADmin (he/him)
- Posts: 1022098
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:16 pm
- Location: Esco-A-Go-Go
- Contact:
i can see both sides to that equation. if you've got a sound and electronics setup that allows you to get the tones you want for the music you play, there is something to be said for reliability. i wouldn't have all the guitars in a large collection sounding the same, but 3 or 4 would keep things interesting at shows.Mike wrote:I like rod and his collection of Mustangs and that, but having like 7 guitars that you replace all the electrics and stuff to all sound the same is pretty west.
plus -- and as always when it comes to rod -- HE HAS GUNSTANG.
