An old 60's Jaguar questions

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:20 am

I own a very old Fender Jaguar, repainted by reseller when it was new, or actually not by reseller, but a respected instrument painting company. The color is white over sunburst. Old materials and methods, so it is nitro painted. It' sneck date is feb65 and no other dates found, except pot dates. #304 Stackpole pots dated -64. The guitar is in relatively well condition, and playable instrument. It was refretted 5 years ago, by a skillfull guitar maker, who used original Fender frets. Yes, and by the way the serial number is L81200.

There are no CBS changes, no F-logo on the neckplate, veneer neck with pearloid dots as usual. It came with light brown Tolex case with black leather ens, inside dark orange.

I'd like to ask, what other information is needed to determine it's age, because I cannot find any date on it's body (rarely seen on a mid 60's instrument).

Value?

I don't know how to send pics but one photo can be seen here

http://www.sunpoint.net/~besos/guitars1.jpg

The other guitar is han made, and drawn by myself. Why? Just want my old Jag to rest mostly, and use that new one as an everyday instrument.

Thanks, F-Jag

BobArsecake · Post by **BobArsecake** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:59 pm

Well from what you've said it sounds like a '65; body from '64 and neck added early '65 (with the serial no. indicated it's from 1965), without trying to sound like a twat I don't know what's wrong. Remember that Fender was taken over by CBS mid 1965 so there weren't any changes until after then, and even then they still used parts lying around from pre-CBS. Very nice guitar :D

Post by **Mike** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:22 pm

Yeah, you've got all the info that we would have advised you to look for.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:41 pm

Mine has a '64 neck and the inlay dots look like clay as oppose to pearloid. The body is an oxford green refin and i have no way of knowing its exact date, although the seller is a very straight guy and promised everything on the guitar is pre-cbs.
Basically its hard to date such an instrument in these circumstances, its so easy to add/replace parts.
As for value you would probably make more money parting it out, but other than that i think you would get $1500+.
More importantly, your Jag looks great. Hang on to it.

DGNR8 · Post by **DGNR8** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:14 pm

They both look sweet.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:12 pm

I really like the custom guitar.

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:17 pm

look around ebay.
you should be able to get 1500.00-3,000.00 grand depending on who is looking at the add.
it almost seems like it could be a one those illusive factory re-fins.
as long as it all originaly you should be looking at 2,500.00 or so.
but you could always just give it away.......

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:36 pm

Justin wrote:I really like the custom guitar.

Thanks to everybody. I think that it is not easy to dertermine any exact day of final assembly. BUT because I am very sure about the guitar and it's history, I kow for sure, that there are no parts added afterwards that I do not know. Tremolo arm is not original and also the volume pot has been replaced, yes, by myself. I even know, that the first owner was later a conductor of a known symphony orchestra. I am the second owner of the quitar.

About that custom "Jag". I tried to draw a "waist off" body like Jag, but add some classic strat-like features. The upper horn is shorter than strat's, but the back part of the body beyond the tremolo plate is longer. I first draw the body, then made a 1:1 model and put it in the Jag case, made some minor modifications, and there it was. Later I met a guy studyig in a instrument making school (a very demanding school, you have to be talented and also very musical in order to study there.), showed my drawing to him, and asked, if he could build it with Jag style neck and old tobacco sunburst finish. As you can see, it is Fender like, with simple working parts and look. I think that was the man principle of Leo Fender; keep everything simple, working and still good looking. I am prou of it. Currently 2 Dimarzio Blue Velvet pups, but I am trying to find a bit "stronger" pup alt least for the neck position. What do you suggest?

F-Jag

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:40 pm

Justin wrote:I really like the custom guitar.

Double post from me so edited...

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:15 pm

the strato jag thing is very cool, i like how you kept the trem, most people are confused by the jag trem system.
what schooll did he go to?
there are only a handful of luthier schools in the u.s. so chances are someone on here has heard of it.
im suprised at how white your jag neck looks.
i take it you are not a smoker, and or you only smoke outside?

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:44 pm

robert(original) wrote:the strato jag thing is very cool, i like how you kept the trem, most people are confused by the jag trem system.
what schooll did he go to?
there are only a handful of luthier schools in the u.s. so chances are someone on here has heard of it.
im suprised at how white your jag neck looks.
i take it you are not a smoker, and or you only smoke outside?

The school (I live in Finland) is a small scool in a small town called Ikaalinen, I remember the name "Ikaalisten Soitinnrakennuskoulu" but I cannot find a web page. It is really a small place, only a few students at a time. They have to be musical, and of course they have to manage all that theoretical and practical info on making instruments, not only guitars.

I do not smoke inside (not at all for 15 years), and the Jag has mostly been in it's case, so maybe it makes the color. It is he original neck!!!

I thing the Jag trem is better than strat's, (excellent way to stay in tune) the only problem may be the bridge, but I can live with it. A drop of adhesive on the screws keep it silent. I am also going to test Shcaller Roller TOM bridge soon. I have heard some positive comments.

By the way, As far as I have read info on Fenders I am surprided, why the case is more like -62 model! By the time of -65 Fender used black Tolex cases??!!

F-Jag

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:35 pm

have you ever thought of using a mustang bridge?
its the same radius and its already spaced out for you.
the tom has a few problems with it,
its not very conductive to the tremolo movement and it is the wrong raduis.
so it would need a bit of work before deemed suitable.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:53 pm

I want a guitar like your homemade one.

Post by **Hurb** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:42 pm

Theres nothing else I need to add to this thread other than those 2 guitars a really lovely! welcome to the board!

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:39 am

Again, thanks for all the commens and questions. My english is not good, but I try to write something again.

For those, who want a quitar like my custom "Strat-Jag": I may be willing to license my idea, but that means at least 1000 euro costs for everyone

And about the bridge: Yes, I have tried an old Mustang bridge, but I could not use it, because of too broad string spacing. Upper and lower E-strings almost out of magnet area of the bridge pup, and upper E-string also slips over the fretboard.I do not know, if newer Mustang bridges have narrower sting spread. If you look at the picture of my guitars, you can see, how the strings are set. They are not in the middle of thei saddle except G and D. All other strings are spaced so, that there is room enough on both sides on the fretboard. I use 10-52 strings, but with wound G from 11-set. My hands are relatively small, so that is why I have always liked shorter scales. To play a strat is a bit difficult to me, because of the long scale, and also hand muting is far easier with a Jag than a Strat. I have never played Jazzmaster, and there is one thing I am not sure. Is the body the same as the Jag has? If so, the neck must be longer, because of the longer scale? Or is the bridge in a different place?

One thing about the Schaller Roller TOM: The bridge saddles have rolls. and the sring spacing can be set individually. See

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... ridge.html

I know the radius issue, but in fact my Strat-Jag has a different radius neck (9") than the original (around 7) so I think Schaller is not too far (12")

Any suggestions for a bridge pick-up. I thingk Blue Velvet Bridge pup is a bit too "thin" (sound), I'd like to have a bit warmer sound and more power too. Anyone tried Lace Sensors? There are several types with different kilo-ohms. Basically they are sinle coil pups with a special construction. Low magnetic pull, well shielded.

Cheers, F-Jag

65fenvox · Post by **65fenvox** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:50 am

Hey F-Jag, does your Jaguar have a "A" stamped neck?
From your picture it looks like it could be. You mention only that its stamped "Feb 65". If by chance it is, remember to include this bit of information when you sell it, as "A" necks are very rare.

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:20 am

65fenvox wrote:Hey F-Jag, does your Jaguar have a "A" stamped neck?
From your picture it looks like it could be. You mention only that its stamped "Feb 65". If by chance it is, remember to include this bit of information when you sell it, as "A" necks are very rare.

No, sorry, just the ordinary "B" stamped.

I am not going to sell it, at least very soon. My 2 sons may be interested to own it after me. That is why I play it only now and then at home. Change switch positions back and forth so they stay alive. Hope it's pups won't die. 43 years is a looong time, and I hope it will last at least 2-3 decades to come...

F-Jag

65fenvox · Post by **65fenvox** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:09 pm

F-Jag wrote:
65fenvox wrote:Hey F-Jag, does your Jaguar have a "A" stamped neck?
From your picture it looks like it could be. You mention only that its stamped "Feb 65". If by chance it is, remember to include this bit of information when you sell it, as "A" necks are very rare.
No, sorry, just the ordinary "B" stamped.

I am not going to sell it, at least very soon. My 2 sons may be interested to own it after me. That is why I play it only now and then at home. Change switch positions back and forth so they stay alive. Hope it's pups won't die. 43 years is a looong time, and I hope it will last at least 2-3 decades to come...

F-Jag

Oh, no problem. She's a beauty anyhow, your kids are gonna be very lucky.

handen · Post by **handen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:15 pm

Ah, I remember you posting this at HCEG. Glad you took my recommendation to post over here.

F-Jag · Post by **F-Jag** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:45 pm

Got that roller TOM!

I got tired to wait that Schaller roller TOM bridge, when I saw a quite cheap one here and I bought it. Schaller will come some day....

Now experineces:

I saw at once when I saw the new bridge, that I could not use it properly, because of the thick screw "feet" it has. I should have to drill larger holes to the body, and that was somethin I did not want to do. So I just took the original Jag-bridge away and just dropped that new roller TOM to the original place. The new TOM is a bit higher than the original bridge and therefore I had to adjust the neck angle so, that the sting height was good. Then I tuned, set intonation, tuned and turned my amp on.... and voilÃ¡!!! My Strat-Jag began to SING! I could not believe how much better the sustain was. Somehow upper harmonics came in much better and the stings really sing now. Of course I cannot get that percussive "dÃ¤ng dÃ¤ng sound" anymore, but I don't care. I have my old Jaguar for that. I was afraid that the rolls would rattle somehow, but no. AND I have to say, the sound is otherwise better too, more solid and consistent. Maybe the original bridge resonates in many ways and that affects the sound.

So far, after a few hours I am very satisfied, although the bridge is not assembled properly and I cannot adjust it's heigh. I'll wait, until that Schaller comes, and test it too. It has adjustable string spread, this cheap one not, but I am quite happy with this one now.

For everyone who wants to try this: the original post spacing on the Jag-bridge is 73.8 mm, (see how much in inches). Check that the roller TOM you test has the same one. I do not suggest to drill new holes to any vintage insrument so use your TOM like I did now. But, if you happen to build a new Jag-like, it is up to you which one you choose.

I am VERY satisfied with the more solid, more consistent sound with lot of upper harmonics and SUSTAIN.

Sooo happy, F-Jag