Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Painting? Routing? Set-up tips? Or just straight-up making a guitar from scratch? Post here, and post pics!

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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by Pens »

Hooo. It's been a fun journey to this point.

I got the drill press up and running, and spent quite a bit of time drilling scrap wood trying to learn how to properly operate the thing. I know it seems easy "pull lever, drill thing" but there really is a learning curve in getting the part lined up exactly where it's really going to drill, making sure that both the part and the drill are level while drilling, making sure you don't slip when drilling and not notice, how fast you pull the lever, etc. Also, I took a detour to build myself a little adjustable platform to support the body while in the press.

I could not get the holes correctly lined up in the neck. I got really, really fucking good at making dowels to fill my fuckups, I can say that. It's a long fucking story, so let me skip to the end: I ended up needing (due to my own fuckups) to fill the holes in both the body and the neck, and redo the whole procedure of getting the neck screw holes in place. After making mahogany dowels to fill all of the holes, I am so damn thankful I asked to have scraps from the body sent back which proved invaluable for this, I placed the neck plate onto the back of the body, got it level with the neck pocket, traced it, and re-drilled the body.

After this was done, and it took me so fucking long because I kept not checking and rechecking then checking again before actually turning on the press, then only drilling a tiny pilot hole and rechecking, etc, I traced out the center line of the neck, and the center line of the body, and fit the neck tight so that the centers were correct, then pushed a drill bit into the body hole to make a dent in the neck where the hole needed to be.

Then back to the meticulous check, clamp, recheck the level, etc to drill out the 4 holes in the neck.

I swear I don't know if I'm cut out for this kind of work. It takes me forever to just drill 4 fucking holes.

The neck is now tight in the pocket and everything lines up correct. Posting pic in a sec.

While I had been waiting for glue to dry with those dowels and such, I did spend some time with the neck doing the finish sanding on it. The difference with this oil finish is that, normally I'd just sand things to about 220 grit or so, so the primer had something to grip onto, and the real high-grit sanding came after the clear coat was down. Since there is no layers of paint here, I have to do my high-grit finish sanding now before applying the oil. So, the neck is now nice and smooth, polished up to 600 grit.

I also have been testing out the oil process on the test squares, to see what approaches work. It was those that actually made me realize I needed to sand up to 600 grit, the oil doesn't build a thick coat like paint does. Testing how long between coats, best way to keep dust and bits of cat fur and brush hairs out of the finish, etc. Testing dry time between applying a coat, then what grit to sand it with, if any, before the next coat. It seems that the very first coat I will want to light sand 600 grit over it, to push some of the dust into the grain. The next few coats even out the sanding so it's fine. After that, just very, very light layers about every day, with periodic very light brushing over the course of the day to smooth out the oil layer and remove the dust/hair that always finds it's way to it. I might look at making some kind of tent or something to put over the guitar while it's drying, to maybe help keep that down. However, it does seem to be dry to the touch every day, as long as the layers are correctly thin. It's just going to take many of them.

Now that the body is properly drilled out for all holes, pickguard and all, I can get back to the finish sanding on that. It's about 60% of the way already, so it won't be that far to go.

I'll edit this post in a bit with some pics.

EDIT: Some pics. I screwed everything together to make sure all of my drilled holes were correct, and also to "break them in" before I apply oil into them and seal them up. Again, I still need to do the finish sanding on the body so those marks and shit are going to be gone in a bit.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Looking good!
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Pens wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 12:41 am I also have been testing out the oil process on the test squares, to see what approaches work. It was those that actually made me realize I needed to sand up to 600 grit, the oil doesn't build a thick coat like paint does. Testing how long between coats, best way to keep dust and bits of cat fur and brush hairs out of the finish, etc. Testing dry time between applying a coat, then what grit to sand it with, if any, before the next coat. It seems that the very first coat I will want to light sand 600 grit over it, to push some of the dust into the grain. The next few coats even out the sanding so it's fine. After that, just very, very light layers about every day, with periodic very light brushing over the course of the day to smooth out the oil layer and remove the dust/hair that always finds it's way to it. I might look at making some kind of tent or something to put over the guitar while it's drying, to maybe help keep that down. However, it does seem to be dry to the touch every day, as long as the layers are correctly thin. It's just going to take many of them.
Yep, this sounds familiar. For a high gloss finish, after a decent buildup of very light layers of oil (can't remember, maybe 6-10?) give it another very light sanding (emphasis on light, the oil builds slowly), then build again, the sand with a higher grit all the way up to polishing it. That's what I was trying to do, but dust and cat hair got in the way.

I always wondered if a tent would effect drying time?

Other hobbies have recently brought my attention to laminar flow hoods. If you want another project to take up space and never get finished.

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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by Pens »

Fuck. Now I want to build one of those also.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Pens wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 12:41 am Hooo. It's been a fun journey to this point.

I got the drill press up and running, and spent quite a bit of time drilling scrap wood trying to learn how to properly operate the thing. I know it seems easy "pull lever, drill thing" but there really is a learning curve in getting the part lined up exactly where it's really going to drill, making sure that both the part and the drill are level while drilling, making sure you don't slip when drilling and not notice, how fast you pull the lever, etc. Also, I took a detour to build myself a little adjustable platform to support the body while in the press.

I could not get the holes correctly lined up in the neck. I got really, really fucking good at making dowels to fill my fuckups, I can say that. It's a long fucking story, so let me skip to the end: I ended up needing (due to my own fuckups) to fill the holes in both the body and the neck, and redo the whole procedure of getting the neck screw holes in place. After making mahogany dowels to fill all of the holes, I am so damn thankful I asked to have scraps from the body sent back which proved invaluable for this, I placed the neck plate onto the back of the body, got it level with the neck pocket, traced it, and re-drilled the body.

After this was done, and it took me so fucking long because I kept not checking and rechecking then checking again before actually turning on the press, then only drilling a tiny pilot hole and rechecking, etc, I traced out the center line of the neck, and the center line of the body, and fit the neck tight so that the centers were correct, then pushed a drill bit into the body hole to make a dent in the neck where the hole needed to be.

Then back to the meticulous check, clamp, recheck the level, etc to drill out the 4 holes in the neck.

I swear I don't know if I'm cut out for this kind of work. It takes me forever to just drill 4 fucking holes.

The neck is now tight in the pocket and everything lines up correct. Posting pic in a sec.

While I had been waiting for glue to dry with those dowels and such, I did spend some time with the neck doing the finish sanding on it. The difference with this oil finish is that, normally I'd just sand things to about 220 grit or so, so the primer had something to grip onto, and the real high-grit sanding came after the clear coat was down. Since there is no layers of paint here, I have to do my high-grit finish sanding now before applying the oil. So, the neck is now nice and smooth, polished up to 600 grit.

I also have been testing out the oil process on the test squares, to see what approaches work. It was those that actually made me realize I needed to sand up to 600 grit, the oil doesn't build a thick coat like paint does. Testing how long between coats, best way to keep dust and bits of cat fur and brush hairs out of the finish, etc. Testing dry time between applying a coat, then what grit to sand it with, if any, before the next coat. It seems that the very first coat I will want to light sand 600 grit over it, to push some of the dust into the grain. The next few coats even out the sanding so it's fine. After that, just very, very light layers about every day, with periodic very light brushing over the course of the day to smooth out the oil layer and remove the dust/hair that always finds it's way to it. I might look at making some kind of tent or something to put over the guitar while it's drying, to maybe help keep that down. However, it does seem to be dry to the touch every day, as long as the layers are correctly thin. It's just going to take many of them.

Now that the body is properly drilled out for all holes, pickguard and all, I can get back to the finish sanding on that. It's about 60% of the way already, so it won't be that far to go.

I'll edit this post in a bit with some pics.

EDIT: Some pics. I screwed everything together to make sure all of my drilled holes were correct, and also to "break them in" before I apply oil into them and seal them up. Again, I still need to do the finish sanding on the body so those marks and shit are going to be gone in a bit.
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damn that looks hot!
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by plopswagon »

Yup. Clamping things down on the drill press is one way to do things.
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ekwatts wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:53 pm The word "moisty" has made me irrationally angry.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by Pens »

plopswagon wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:12 pm Yup. Clamping things down on the drill press is one way to do things.
Problem is you can't just clamp a neck into the press due to the rounded fretboard face. In the end I resorted to slapping my magnetic "stud finder" that had a level on it to the heel, it locked to the truss rod, and the bubble level part gave me a good indication of if I had the neck flat or not.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by plopswagon »

True that. This also explains why I never make any progress on my projects because I feel like I need to make a jig for everything.
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ekwatts wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:53 pm The word "moisty" has made me irrationally angry.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by Pens »

I need to order the tuners, those are the final part that I haven't yet ordered. The Tusq nut blank and elliptical strap buttons finally shipped and are on the way now, but I need to get the tuners so I can get the holes drilled out for them.

I was planning on doing the Kluson Supremes, I really like the old split-post slot tuners, but they are $60 vs $40 for some Gotoh SD tuners, though I also just saw Gotoh has "left handed" tuners in this style? I've never even heard of left handed tuners, I've always just ordered and installed regular Klusons.

I guess my question is, has anyone tried out these Kluson Supremes and are they really worth the extra cash? I haven't had any issues with the regular Klusons on my last two builds, those are about $55, so I figure I might as well just get the Supreme model instead, unless the Gotoh's are good too? Anyone use those?
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by dots »

All I know is good tuners feel and work better, but I haven't any experience with the supremes (other than listening to the vocal group).
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Yeah, I agree. Tuners are always the main thing that piss me off on any pre-built guitar. I bought standard real Klusons for the last two from scratch builds, and I love them. Good tuners make a huge difference.

I just went ahead and ordered the Kluson Supreme model since they are really not much more than the standard ones. "Better gear ratio" of 18:1 though I've never really had any issues with the standard ratio, but whatever. Let's try them out.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Finally got the finish sanding to a point where I am mostly happy with it. I went up to 600 grit, and there are a few spots that could be better, but the more I sand on it, the more scratches start appearing elsewhere due to handling. Also, it's clear this thing is gonna get beat up somewhat anyway. Also, it's getting hard to see where I need to sand without having this coat down to show me where I have a mistake. Oil is so thin it comes off in a few swipes of 600 grit anyway.

So, I laid down the initial oil layer to the backside. It soaked up nice, and I also figured out a decent trick from the samples: plastic card like an old credit card or in my case, my old insurance card. No dust, removes excess along with dust and hair, very smooth, won't catch fire like a rag since it wipes clean.

Speaking of catching fire, I wanted to try out an idea. I set up a space heater (it has a thermo so it will shut off at a certain point, along with a fall-over safety) in a small unused room in my basement that is beneath an extension room. It used to be the coal room from way back, still has the old coal chute. Not part of the rest of the house in terms of insulation, it's outside the regular brick boundary. Cement so there's not much to burn if it did catch fire, and has a door that I can close to seal it up. I put the heater in there along with the body to warm up and hopefully cure faster. I dunno if it works or if it sucks, I figure best to try it now on this first coat and see if it works, as opposed to after I put all this time into it and find out it blows dust all over or something.

I also wanna shout out cooter here for the unbelievable joining work. This body started as a 3 piece body. He didn't have a planer that wide so I told him to just cut it down, plane it, then join it back together, knowing he's an absolute pro at making the seams invisible. I look at this thing and struggle to even see where any of the joins are.

Quick pics:
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by dots »

dude, that looks incredible! while i could hazard guesses at the join locations, they'd be just that, guesses. there's nothing obvious from the distance of the photos to my eyes. the color hues it's taking on with the oil are stunning. you going to clear coat or just let'r ride?

and good call on the tuners. i will oddly cheap out on pickups (price-wise, not quality), but i absolutely feel the value in higher ratio machines when i'm twisting back and forth over the same 1cm of movement on a cheap guitar to tune it.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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I applied some red-tinted oil to the sides eventually, blend it inwards, then go over back over the sides with a dark brown tinted oil. Like a sunburst but more transparent and subtle, at least that's the goal.The wood is too damn pretty to cover entirely.

I'm going to let this first layer have some time to soak and set before moving to that layer. I've been debating on whether to eventually use a final coat of poly, or use full oil. I have a mix of beeswax and linseed I made that is like a thick paste that I want to try as a final top coat, to see how durable that is.

As of right now I did the first oil layer on the top, after letting the back coat sit over night to let gravity pull it down into the wood. I just did he first layer on the sides. From my experiences with oil in painting, you gotta give it time and just set it aside to do it's thing for a while. It's tough, though. I want to keep working on it, but right now it's all about patience.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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i bet that's gotta be murder waiting, but so worth it.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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So quick update.

One, I applied oil to the neck after completing the finish sanding. I got impatient waiting for the tuners so I just did the first coat before drilling out those holes, but it's fine. Just the initial coat. Immediate observation, the neck when oiled is a bit darker than the body, which is a good thing. With the oil on everything, I can see that the body is in sore need of some tinting to break up the boring uniform brown. There's just too much fucking brown of the same shade. Pic attached.

Second, while I turned off the space heater due to nervousness of setting my house on fire and also wanting the initial oil coats to have time to seep into the wood, that back room is absolutely ideal for this process. Since it's not part of the central air system, there is practically no dust floating in the air. Sure, there's some settled dust and spiderwebs on things, but there is zero dust and cat hair settling on my oil layers in this room.

I did some testing with my sample squares of the tinting, and this is the first layer results. There's not a lot to see, it's very very subtle as this is only one coat of each color, but you can see some variation between the three samples. One is the control, only has pure oil. Another has the dark brown tint (Burnt Umber) applied, the last has the "reddish brown" Burnt Sienna applied. I did today go down and start applying the Sienna layer to the backside edges, but again it's so subtle at this stage there's no point in more pics of that. I know it's tinted, because when I scrape the oil with a card to remove oil "lumps" and smooth it out, the oil coming off is dark red. It's just so spread out that it's hard to really see at this point. Once it starts becoming more obvious I'll take more pics. The basic process is to apply some thinned oil with Indian Red in it at the edges, basically on the roundovers, then pull the brush into the center of the body. Primarily to "wet" the surface, the Indian Red really doesn't show at all. After that I take a very small amount of the Sienna on a palette knife and then brush it into the knife to even it out, then start applying it in bits around the edges. It's always heaviest with the first strokes, so you have to spread those first strokes around. After that, I take a bigger brush and start blending it into the rest of the body, first around the edges that didn't get the paint, then I pull the brush strokes from the edge in towards the center. A bit of scraping to remove any chunks that got in there, then blending out the scraping. In the end, you really can't see much tint at all, but that really is the point. I'll keep applying this way until it's colored enough.

After that, it's on to the Burnt Umber.

I am debating on whether to put some tint on the headstock. I want to leave it alone, that's my instinct, but we'll see how the body turns out.

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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by dots »

So pretty!
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

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Third red layer is down now and it is showing pretty nicely, so here's how that looks. Most of this is going to get covered in the dark brown, but it needs to be there as the underlayer to that.

It's definitely looking better to me, the single brown shade wasn't doing it for me. This looks much better, at least so far.
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Now a setback. I was placing the tuners to get the drill holes marked, and I do now realize the difference in left and right handed tuners, and confirmed that my last two builds used lefty tuners. I'm going to have to return these and try to find lefty Klusons now.
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Re: Project: Player Jaguar in mahogany

Post by plopswagon »

That looks amazing! It’s starting to look like my music man stingray bass. Good work!
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ekwatts wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:53 pm The word "moisty" has made me irrationally angry.