2amp rigs with added bass

[Hurb]

Playing live and loud has taught me a few lessons. One of which is that a lot of lows get lost through my guitar amp. I am talking about pedal induced lows and subs. A couple of weeks ago at practice I plugged into a bass amp and guitar amp. This brought back the low end (obvs) when using some pedals and didn't really effect the normal guitar tone when no subs were present.
I did want to try this live last week but the singer ended up plugging into the house bass amp as for some reason the pa wouldn't work with it.

So rather inconveniently I have bought an ashdown 4 X10 and ashdown 300w head.
Not had a chance to try it at practice yet, but have borrowed a fender rumble at home. Sounds great but too loud for home really.

Anyone doing this or could send links about it as I would like to nerd out.
We do have a bass player too....so we are all about the bass, you could say!

upload pic

[Bacchus]

I think Doog spent quite a while fettling something like this.

I've always been tempted to try it, particularly given the amount of massive bass amp you can get for cheap second hand these days (I remember really lusting after Trace Elliot bass amps as a teenager because their combos were what was in the professional space in Derry, so they were considered what "real" bassists used. Now you can get half stack on gumtree for fuck all, because massive stacks have fallen out of favour).

Generally though, I have two amps in stereo, one a 50w Bassman derivative in a 212, the other is a Matamp 412. So I think I'm getting plenty of low end reaching far enough down the spectrum to where I'm close to where the bassist is (who generally ventures up the neck and has a brightish tone anyway).

Maybe I could add a third amp....

[Hurb]

Yeah I am sure Doog will chime in.

I think 3 would be amazing
Yeah I've spent about 200 all in for the bass cab and head.
The main issue I am going to have is fitting everything in the car....which is already pretty full with the bass players g&k setup.

[Pens]

I'm running a 2amp setup, but my setup is, Tuner(buffer)->Morley A/B/Y->SubNUp->MXR Bass DI-> Bass amp, then A/B/Y->DualRat->Palmer DI (GT2 clone)->guitar amp.

We don't have a bassist, I am basically filling in the bottom end role, just two guitars and drums. Depending on what I am playing, there is or isn't extra bass to it. I like to just call it "thick guitar", when I power chord something low you really get that chunk, but I can still play higher stuff too.

In practice I just use the drummer's amps, which is an SVT4 for bass into I think a 2x15 cab, guitar is some old Sunn combo amp that's loud as fuck and has a "Bright" input. I have the volume set at less than 1 and it's louder than the SVT4 at like 6.

Tomorrow I'm going to lug my own Ampeg PF-500 bass head just to get the sound dialed in on it. I am finishing a 2x12 cab, I just loaded it up with Eminence Legend BP 122 speakers, waiting for the correct screws to arrive for the casters. I need to sort something out for a grill, I need to hit up the hardware store and probably just get some kind of mesh to put over the front, then put some cloth over that. It's infinitely lighter than that damn Ampeg 2*15 cab. That's the plan for live, we are playing our first show in I think June. Live I'll be hauling my Twin as usual, no sense in risking that precious Sunn with transport.

But yeah, bass rigs can be heavy as fuck, but these small class D amps are pretty awesome and light. Sometimes I think why bother with all the setup, then I switch the bass line off at the ABY, and I can instantly tell the thickness is gone. It's hard to really describe, but it just makes the guitar sound more awesome in every way.

[plopswagon]

I did a similar thing with bass. I had two bass amps, an SVT III and initially an old Ampeg B-15 or B-18 fliptop head. I didn’t like touring with the fliptop so I got an Ampeg V-4B. I would run the SVT into a 15” cab and the other one into a 4 10” cab which was basically the top end. Any effects were through that amp (usually just a Rat)

I also ran direct with the top end cab having a mic live. With this set up I always had a nice heavy bottom end and the top end would have a nice natural “woody” sound. So many sound techs would just dial up a muddy, bottom heavy bass sound in the mix and miss out on the delicious tones coming from my fingers.

Got any pics of that Sun O)))) amp?

[Doog]

My downtuned, dual amp Casa Bonita shit was a bit different as I was the only non-drum musician, so was just trying to fill up as much space as possible; typically having one brighter middier guitar amp, and one bassy, mid-scooped bass amp, and switching 'em in and out as a dynamic tool.

Bass amps with guitar can be tricky as there's no 'fundamentals' in those low ranges on 'normal' guitar, it's all just overtones and rumble, leaving you fighting for space with the bassist and crapping up the live mix. But yeah, if you're doing proper lower register pitch/synthy stuff, a bass amp can sound SO hench because of the extended ranges at both extremes. I guess the key is picking the right cab/combo that can truly do the PROPER low end, so your live mix doesn't suffer and just sound rumbly and woofy rather than the GOOD type of bassy.

I've used a load of modern cheap-loud combos (guitar AND bass; I have a goofy setup again) at the practise space with the new band recently, and was reminded HOW much difference it makes having a combo on the floor, angled up. I was super disappointed in the Boss Katana 100 initially because it lacked ANY balls in the low end department when on a riser (the bass control felt more like a low-mid control), but getting it resonating against the wall made a huge difference, and made me consider buying one again.

I still really miss my Marshall 1936 2x12 cab; it had THE best low lows for the size, no 1x12 everrrrrrr got close; sometimes you just need more wood vibrating, innit.

[Rhysyrhys]

I used to run two amps back in 2010s era went something like:

Guitar with humbuckers
|
Pedalboard: interesting part was DD-6 with delay time turned all the way down for stereo split and some thiccccness
|
Laney GH50L -> Eminence 2x12 in a birch ply cab
Fender FM100H -> 1x15 pedal steel Eminence speaker

----

My advice: When hunting down whatever you're gonna put in the more bassy side of the set up try out some pedal steel gear. I found that it didn't drown out the rest of frequency range that the band produced when I stayed in that lane, I just got a lot more earthy deepness. Having a 2x12 + 1x15 also moves fucking airrrrrr, real trouser flapping goodness, so it's enjoyable in that regards too.

If I wanted to go stereo now, and I've thought about it, I would make my second amp a JC-120 and send cleans and effects stereo to it, turning the chorus mode it has on a little to get even more stereo spread.

[Doog]

Pedalboard: interesting part was DD-6 with delay time turned all the way down for stereo split and some thiccccness

Yeah, I did this too; it makes such a difference and sidesteps any phasing issues

[plopswagon]

If I wanted to go stereo now, and I've thought about it, I would make my second amp a JC-120 and send cleans and effects stereo to it, turning the chorus mode it has on a little to get even more stereo spread.

My old guitarist did something similar to this.

[Rhysyrhys]

Also: http://www.headrushfx.com/products/frfr-112-frfr112xus

The Headrush FRFR 112 is probably also a contender for my modern day stereo rig. Reasons:

1) I have one for my L6 Helix and it's ungodly loud, I got to around 6 of 10 on the dial on the back before getting into "too loud" territory - I live in a detached house currently with two rooms either sides of my music space so "too loud" was "it hurts and this is probably gonna get me in trouble with the Po Po" loud. It's 2000w and they really mean that from the bottom of their hearts

2) It's my bass rig right now, my L6 is set to emulate a Ampeg 8x12 and it does that gloriously, stick a fuzz pedal and a compressor in the chain and it's frigging good clean fun with ya clothes still on

3) It's fucking 350 bucks I nearly bought another just because they are so fucking cheap for what you get and the L6 Helix basically wants to be in stereo

4) Speaker is Neodym so you can carry it one handed, fits in the boot of a coupe car with space for pedalboard and two guitars, all of which you can carry as a normal healthy human for hours on public transit with minimal fatigue (this probably should be higher on the list)

5) It's a wedge shape so it projects fantastically, can be used for fold back if you want to play a mono set and you can't hear yourself/inadequate gear at the venue

6) You can put a pedal amp on your board like http://www.guitarworld.com/features/be ... for-guitar any of the suggestions here and drive it because it's active. I especially am looking at the Walrus Audio for that job if I ever do make a stereo rig, also the Seymour Duncan one gets cracking reviews

7) In a real pinch it accepts two balanced inputs so you and a keyboard/bass player can share a 1x12 if you wanna play in a tube station or summink

There's a 1x10 version which also gets rave reviews and tbth, I might get one of those too just to see what its like


EDIT: Here is the Quilter Pedal Steel cab I lusted over back in the day: http://reverb.com/item/38898016-quilte ... watts-1x15

[Pens]

I
Got any pics of that Sun O)))) amp?

Here ya go.

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20230425_220710.jpg (6.6 MiB) Viewed 944 times

[plopswagon]

Nice!

[Hurb]

Lush guys! Just what I wanted.

I did practice this week with what was available at the practice space (line 6 spider for the guitar, and some ashdown combo.

I think it works well, I just am using the stereo outs of my last pedal which is zoom multistomp. So the bass is getting everything, but you mostly don't notice it, although it seemed to help the line 6 spider fill out a bit. But when using some -1 or -2 octaves everything sounds heavy as fuck and lovely. I may well be stepping on the bass players frequency's, I dunno they haven't complained yet! Next gig is the 12th of May so will see what complaints the sound person gives me.

[Mike]

I came here to say a closed back 2x12” cabinet is what you really need

Soz!

[Freddy V-C]

For what it's worth, even though it's a shame to lose out on subby effects, in a live context I don't personally think it matters, at least not when there's a bass player as well. In the same sense that it generally doesn't make sense to have 4 different dirt pedals in your live rig because the audience won't be able to hear the difference anyway, most people won't notice whether the subs from your effects are there or not. Ultimately it might enhance the enjoyment of maybe 2 people in the room, but it also runs the risk of causing weird flubby boomy business going on in the FOH, and potentially overlapping with what the bass player is doing. For me personally I'd just focus on cutting through with some nice brash upper mids, and don't worry about too much else in a live context. On record is a different kettle of fish, of course.

[Freddy V-C]

Of course I say all this as someone who plays in a band with 4 bass cabs in our backline, so feel free to write me off as being full of shit.

[Hurb]

I normally consider you our spiritual leader... however on this occasion I think you just want all the bass for yourself!

[Freddy V-C]

For what it's worth I did high-pass the fuck out of your guitar when mixing that demo!!

[Hurb]

You can prove anything with facts!

[Doog]

For what it's worth I did high-pass the fuck out of your guitar when mixing that demo!!

haha I was gonna actually say something to the effect of "listen to isolated tems of 'beefy' guitar tracks, and you realise how much low-end really isn't there, and is added to the mix via the other instruments nicely locking in with em".

Pedalboard: interesting part was DD-6 with delay time turned all the way down for stereo split and some thiccccness

Yeah, I did this too; it makes such a difference and sidesteps any phasing issues

This is worth highlighting again; if your two sets of speakers are wired out-of-phase with each other, you might end up actual phase-cancelling that low end out, so a super short delay will make everything sound better, it also just sounds BEEFIER, even if there's no inherent phase issue.