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Conversion Necks
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serfx
ss.o bastard son


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 6405
Location: Edmonton Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Conversion Necks Reply with quote

so, after a quick search finding not much posted aside from questions
and with me somehow shipping my 22.7" conversion neck to my folks instead of LA i figured i should take advantage of all of this
as i currently have in one room
a 22.7" conversion duo neck
24" conversion CV duo neck
24" conversion jagmaster neck.

figured might be a good time to take some shots of them all.
see how they line up with each other etc..

photobomb









i'm fedexing the 90's mim duo neck to la on monday so any requests for info will have to happen on sunday while i can still take photos and compare.
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oolu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even understand how this works... so you can put that squier neck on the tele and everything will work out, intonation-wise? Why does it work? Seems to me that the nut will still be too far away from the bridge. Is there any way to tell the difference between a conversion neck and a regular one by sight?
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James
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Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works because of the location of the frets and the size of the neck.

Assume the bridge on a Strat is 9" from the neck pocket, the distance from the bridge to the 12th fret needs to be 25.5/2, so 12.75". So for a 25.5" neck the 12th fret needs to be 3.75" from the end of the neck, and the distance from the 12th fret to the nut is also 12.75" with the frets in between scaled appropriately.

On a conversion neck the distance is still 9", but for a 24" neck the distance now needs to be only 12", so the 12 fret needs to be 3" from the neck pocket and the rest of the details adjusted to suit.

It can create some awkwardness. For example a 28" conversion baritone neck is typically 24 frets because the neck needs to be very long to work with the above logic. With short scales the neck is a little shorter than normal in relation to the body (though the fret spacing remains the same).
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oolu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it'd be entirely possible to design a conversion neck that'd take a normally shortscaled guitar like the Mustang, and make it a full 25.5", as long as the bridge and the 12th fret are 9" apart? I think this is an idea worth trying. A longscale Mustang might be a very cool thing.

Wait a second, I just had a thought... so I should be able to move the bridge on my Jaguar back 3/4" inches and stick a Jazzmaster neck on, thereby essentially making it a 25.5" Jaguar?


Last edited by oolu on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mustang Melx
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Joined: 02 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolu wrote:
So it'd be entirely possible to design a conversion neck that'd take a normally shortscaled guitar like the Mustang, and make it a full 25.5", as long as the bridge and the 12th fret are 9" apart? I think this is an idea worth trying. A longscale Mustang might be a very cool thing.


I could be wrong, but I thought the original mustangs did come with 2 scale lengths on the same body/bridge position.

edit: according to my fender book 24" or 22.5"


Last edited by Mustang Melx on Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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oolu
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mustang Melx wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought the original mustangs did come with 2 scale lengths on the same body/bridge position.

They did, but it was 24" and 22.whatever". There was no long scale (25.5") mustang.
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Mustang Melx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolu wrote:
Mustang Melx wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought the original mustangs did come with 2 scale lengths on the same body/bridge position.

They did, but it was 24" and 22.whatever". There was no long scale (25.5") mustang.


yeah, you're right, but going on that logic, there isn't any reason why you couldn't do the same thing and make it longer, I guess?
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oolu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose the shorter necks were early conversion necks or something... as you can see, I'm just learning about this.
But I assume that shortening the scale is easier than lengthening it, it the sense that to shorten the scale, one need only have the proper neck but to lengthen it, one would have to physically move the bridge and possibly the tailpiece.
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Mustang Melx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolu wrote:
I suppose the shorter necks were early conversion necks or something... as you can see, I'm just learning about this.
But I assume that shortening the scale is easier than lengthening it, it the sense that to shorten the scale, one need only have the proper neck but to lengthen it, one would have to physically move the bridge and possibly the tailpiece.


I'm not sure, I've just been looking at my mustang neck compared to my Jagmaster neck, both are 12" from nut to 12th fret, but the jagmaster neck is shorter overall, and the frets are all bunched up at the top end... so I could put a strat neck on this... is that right?

so given that couldn't you just do the reverse on a mustang and space the frets out past the 12th until you got a longer scale?

I dunno this is actually giving me a headache now, maths was never my best subject!!
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oolu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mustang Melx wrote:
I'm not sure, I've just been looking at my mustang neck compared to my Jagmaster neck, both are 12" from nut to 12th fret, but the jagmaster neck is shorter overall, and the frets are all bunched up at the top end... so I could put a strat neck on this... is that right?

so given that couldn't you just do the reverse on a mustang and space the frets out past the 12th until you got a longer scale?


I don't think so... James said earlier that the distance between the nut and the 12th fret on a Strat (21 frets, i'm assuming) is 12.75", while on a proper 24" shortscale neck, it's only 12", which is why I was thinking that I'd have to move the bridge back to compensate. But now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think that would even work, as it wouldn't change the distance between the frets on the neck itself.

Geez, I'm all confused now, myself... maybe we should wait for somebody a little more knowledgeable to come along before our mutual headaches get any worse. lol.
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serfx
ss.o bastard son


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from stewmac
Quote:
A guitar's scale length is calculated by measuring the distance from the front edge of the nut, where it butts against the end of the fingerboard, to the center of the 12th (octave) fret, then doubling that measurement.

http://www.stewmac.com/fretscales

so in order to put a 25.5" or even a conversion neck on a mustang and make it intonate properly you would need to move the mustang bridge back.. not an easy task.
i had the 22.7" duo neck on my `74 mustang for just over a year and a half, and yes it did work, but past the 10th fret you could not make chords and have them sound correct (due to wildly different tuning then what when you looked that the frets would be)..
as it was my main guitar for my noize stuff this was not a bother to me.
however i would not recommend doing that unless you really don't care, or are looking to just create interesting sounds.

if you were to put a jaguar neck on a jazzmaster/strat/whatever 25.5" you have kicking around it would require you to move the bridge forward, and in about 99% of guitars this is just not an option.
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oolu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

serfx wrote:
from stewmac
Quote:
A guitar's scale length is calculated by measuring the distance from the front edge of the nut, where it butts against the end of the fingerboard, to the center of the 12th (octave) fret, then doubling that measurement.

http://www.stewmac.com/fretscales

so in order to put a 25.5" or even a conversion neck on a mustang and make it intonate properly you would need to move the mustang bridge back.. not an easy task.

if you were to put a jaguar neck on a jazzmaster/strat/whatever 25.5" you have kicking around it would require you to move the bridge forward, and in about 99% of guitars this is just not an option.

I could see moving the bridge being much harder on a Mustang than on a Jaguar, due to the huge holes in the body for the dynamic tremolo system on the 'Stangs.

Still, a long scale Mustang would be pretty badass.
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serfx
ss.o bastard son


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

much harder on a mustang. on a jag you could leave the tail peice as is and just move the bridge back, this would also increase the angle from teh tail piece to the bridge (aka break angle) and in theory keep the strings in place better (i've never had an issue with my string poping out.. i play .011's or .013's on my jag's and mustang..) that some people complain about.
the key is to measure 9 times, confirm it is correct, mark it, measure again, drill pilot holes. measure if good then go from there.

as i find measuring once and drilling usually ends up with mistakes.
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James
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolu wrote:
I don't think so... James said earlier that the distance between the nut and the 12th fret on a Strat (21 frets, i'm assuming) is 12.75", while on a proper 24" shortscale neck, it's only 12"...


Those numbers were for the sake of example, they aren't accurate at all.

The scale length is just the distance from the bridge to the nut. People tend to measure it from the nut to to the 12fth fret because these are fixed points and bridge saddles are moved to allow for small differences in intonation (due to string height and that sort of thing).

On any guitar, if you make the distance from the nut to the bridge 25.5" then it will be that scale. There isn't (to my knowledge) a readily available neck to do that on a Mustang, but it's entirely possible without moving the bridge. It'd be a massive hassle because you'd have to fret a custom spaced fretboard or shape a custom length neck so the heel was in the right place.

Conversion necks are just necks that are spaced to fit on a body of an established scale (such as 25.5" or 24") and change (convert) the scale to a different length. There's no magic involved.
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serfx
ss.o bastard son


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry to bump this thread but as people still appear to have questions about the CV duo necks CR (current run) Jagmaster necks etc..
i snapped a couple more pictures

this is a CV duo sonic neck (24" scale, 21 fret's conversion)
next to a CIJ Jaguar neck (true 24" scale, 22 frets)







the 90's duo sonic 22.7" scale necks are 20 frets.




and as demonstrated by this shot the CV duo neck is the same as the CR jagmaster neck.. just with a maple fretboard, (ignore the difference in cbs and non cbs headstock..)
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taylornutt
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
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Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the blog I found my Mustang template on, the guy originally worked up a 25.5" scale Mustang. I might still have it. Let me check on that.

I found the thread on offsetguitars.com:

http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30983


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Hkitty
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: Direct Replacement Summary Reply with quote

Hey thanks for all the great information here.
I think there is alot of confusion because of the 22.5", 22.7", 24", 24.75", 25.5" scales mixed with the 20,21, and 22 fret necks.


Let me take a cut at summarizing the possible replacements from what I understand but please correct and add where necessary:

1) A 22.5" scale, 21 fret, 50's/60's, Fender duosonic/musicmaster/mustang neck can be replaced by a 24" scale, 22 fret, 50's-70's, Fender duosonic/musicmaster/mustang/jaguar neck.

2) A 24" scale, 22 fret Squier Vista Jagmaster (96-98) or Jagmaster II (02 to 07) neck can be used on a 50's- 70's Fender duosonic/musicmaster/mustang,jaguar body.

3) A 24" scale, 21 fret Squier Classic Vibe Duosonic neck cannot be used on a Fender duosonic/musicmaster/mustang/jaguar body (without leaving a 1 fret space at the bottom of the neck to the body).

4) A 24" scale, 21 fret Squier Classic Vibe Duosonic neck and a 24" scale, 21 fret Squier Jagmaster II (08-10) neck are interchangeable.

5) A 25.5" scale Fender duosonic/musicmaster/mustang/jaguar is possible but using a standard 25.5" scale, 21 fret neck you would need to move the bridge farther from the neck.



Here are a few questions:

Can a 24" scale, 21 fret neck Squier Classic Vibe duosonic or Jagmaster II (08-10) directly replace the 22.7" scale, 20 fret neck on the Squier mini or Fender/Squier MIM/MIC duosonic?

Was the Jagstang a 24" scale, 22 frets, or 24.75" scale, 22 frets, or both?
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serfx
ss.o bastard son


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

close but the jagmaster (02-07) neck is 25.5" scale aside from that you are pretty much spot on.
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truejacqueline
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also want to know if I can use a 24" scale CV Duo Sonic neck to replace the 22" neck on a 90's Chinese Affinity Duo?
I got the guitar for a 30 rack of Schaefer and have since made it incredibly awesome. The scale is like just barely impractical.

Here's a picture to whip up some interest:


I don't remember which set of SD Antiquity pickups those are (Jaguar maybe?), obviously new pickguard, and that bridge is from a Toronado which fits perfectly, string through body. It sounds freakin great and it's light as a feather.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know the answer but that is win. Only Green Tort could trump that
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