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"Deal" on a 66 Mustang

 
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Doug
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: "Deal" on a 66 Mustang Reply with quote

Can you believe this...?

Link


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kypdurron
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fact is factory custom sparkle finishes are rare. So someone trys if there is a collector who pays any price. Assuming I was a collector for rare sparkele custom finished Fenders with tons of cash behind me I'd ask for more thoug than someone writing on the internet that this
Quote:
most likely was a factory custom order

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Doug
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:05 am    Post subject: So suspicious... Reply with quote

kypdurron wrote:
Fact is factory custom sparkle finishes are rare...I'd ask for more though than someone writing on the internet that this
Quote:
most likely was a factory custom order


Hi, Kyp. Custom order sparkle finishes are rare...and then there's the student model in 1966. How likely is it that someone would want a bottom line guitar and go to the trouble of custom ordering it. In 1966. In sparkle no less.

Then there's the obvious absence of any substantiation that this is true.

It's possibly legit, but it's such a long long-shot...! So I wrote to Reverb, the music website that hosts this ad and asked them to ask the seller to publish verification in the ad.

Buyer beware.

Doug
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daftsupernova
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Listed about 1 year ago"

wow i wonder why no one has bought this yet its such a mystery that i don't know if we'll ever find out
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James
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I edited your post to fix the link and include an image.

When making the colour chart I came across a few of the one-off factory finish sparkles and this doesn't look like them. When you look at this image the paint looks like a DIY job with the orange peel look and how thick it is. Looking between the routes the finish is thinner, which suggests a home rattlecan job where they focused on the visible areas. Fender would have sprayed the whole body.

Look at the back of the pickguard and the neck heel and there is some daphne coloured paint and some of the sparkle colour. That points to a DIY job that was put back together too quickly with the paint still soft. The neck pocket is solid daphne, too, with no paint stick mark. In fact you can see areas where what looks like the real, lighter, daphne is visible underneath.

It's been re-finished in a colour similar to daphne at some point and then painted sparkle over the top. Both DIY jobs.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the late 1960s, there were spraybomb cans of 'flake which would lend to the amateur job. It'll also explain the small flake size, and the suuuuuuuuuuuuuuper heavy coats of candy/clear. If you can't get the flake to lay down, just pour clear over it until its kinda flat. Then, thanks to nitro, you can wheel the ever loving hell out of it and it looks great! For sure a re-spray, and for sure not worth 10k. Neat guitar though.
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Doug
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Healthy skepticism Reply with quote

James wrote:
...When making the colour chart I came across a few of the one-off factory finish sparkles and this doesn't look like them. When you look at this image the paint looks like a DIY job with the orange peel look and how thick it is. Looking between the routes the finish is thinner, which suggests a home rattlecan job where they focused on the visible areas. Fender would have sprayed the whole body...Look at the back of the pickguard and the neck heel and there is some daphne coloured paint and some of the sparkle colour. That points to a DIY job that was put back together too quickly with the paint still soft. The neck pocket is solid daphne, too, with no paint stick mark. In fact you can see areas where what looks like the real, lighter, daphne is visible underneath...It's been re-finished in a colour similar to daphne at some point and then painted sparkle over the top. Both DIY jobs.


Thanks James, superfuzz and other knowledgeable skeptics. Below is a reasonable reply I got from Daniel at Chicago Music Exchange. It's my understanding that the finish black light test is an accepted vintage-industry method for assessment. I replied with encouragement that in the future they include verification when their ads make extraordinary claims.

We buyers still have to decide whether to believe the verification... Laughing

Cheers,

Doug



Hello Doug,

Thanks for the inquiry and interest. Fender made a hand full of one-off sparkle colors in the '60's. Typically they were reserved for trade show displays or special orders. Based on several references, it seems that the sparkle finishes were usually done by a local auto shop down the street from the Fender factory, and often times, on top of the already existing Fender finish. In this case, the finish seems to have been applied on top of Daphne Blue, which was a standard color for these guitars at the time. The [b]finish black lights very old and this looks very much like several of the original sparkle finish Fenders we've owned.

Regards, Daniel, Chicago Music Exchange

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HNB
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said on OSG, I understand that they are trying to make the most they can and try to be as accurate as they can, but there are dozens or more threads about people owning guitars they had refinned that pass a black light test. There is no one way to guarantee authenticity other than Fender saying they made it or the original owner with receipt or something. (Even then with technology, could be faked.) It can show repairs and such, but it depends on the paint used and other factors.

With old guitars, I just pay what I feel it is worth. If someone feels that finish is worth the money, they will buy it. Hopefully the only reason isn't because it is a special snowflake, because that can be faked or just not be 100% verifiable. A couple comments from some people who had refins and repaired guitars tested. They passed even though they knew they were not original finishes.

Quote:
What exactly will looking at an original finish under a "black light" tell you? I was looking at a guitar I KNOW is refinned, and they say they black light tested it, and it passed their test....
(Neck has red finish on the heel, so does neckplate, circa 1960..)

Finish was Olympic White btw.


Quote:
FWIW-I have an 83 Les Paul that Im 99% suffered a headstock break and an excellent refinish-nitro-as are all Gibsons

I have compared it to a 1980 new unmolested LP (as well as several others from 1971 to 2002 and about every decade inbetween-

and I cannot tell any difference under blacklight-all seem to glow 'milkshake yellow'-

also my lentz which is ultra thin nitro made in 2004-same type of glow


I am not saying it is 100% refinish either. I am just saying there isn't a really easy way to prove it is or is not. I would not buy it only for the 'finish rareness' or something because of that. If I wanted that finish, I would buy a nice vintage one for under half that and have it finished in a glitter finish for much less and enjoy money saved.

Just my opinion though.
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James
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% refin, twice even. I'd say it's been refinished in a darker, brighter blue than Mustangs originally came in and then sparkle over that. Neither of them by Fender or the auto shop that Fender used.

I do think it looks cool but there's no way it's legit or worth $9,000. Even if it was a genuine one-off example $9,000 is steep.





Fender stock finishes don't have paint on the neck butt like that, and I very much doubt the auto shop would do the same thing either.
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kypdurron
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: So suspicious... Reply with quote

Doug wrote:

Hi, Kyp. Custom order sparkle finishes are rare...and then there's the student model in 1966. How likely is it that someone would want a bottom line guitar and go to the trouble of custom ordering it. In 1966. In sparkle no less.


In "fender te golden years" they feature some Duo Sonics that have a sparkle finish, and it's said it's original. Given the price range of these guitars back then, and given the cost of a custom colour, it may well appear on the lower end models. But still, 9000 for a Mustang, well, no Smile
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Doug
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:10 pm    Post subject: So suspicious... Reply with quote

kypdurron wrote:
Doug wrote:

Hi, Kyp. Custom order sparkle finishes are rare...and then there's the student model in 1966. How likely is it that someone would want a bottom line guitar and go to the trouble of custom ordering it. In 1966. In sparkle no less.


In "fender te golden years" they feature some Duo Sonics that have a sparkle finish, and it's said it's original. Given the price range of these guitars back then, and given the cost of a custom colour, it may well appear on the lower end models. But still, 9000 for a Mustang, well, no Smile


Thanks, Kyp. After reading lots of opinions and tech articles on the internet, most people who have experience using black light testing tend to agree it's very unreliable as a test of age but more reliable as a test of whether there have been repairs or other modifications.

My understanding at this point is that Chicago Music Exchange can not verify the pain as original 1966 paint with a black light test.

Doug
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George
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reading somewhere that customs sparkle jobs back in the day often had two colours going on
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Minty
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legit or not, that colour looks great! Maybe not $9k great, but still...
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