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re-setting a neck
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: re-setting a neck Reply with quote

Bought an old (totally fucked)1950s parlor acoustic for £16 as a summer project. the neck is coming away from the body due to someone putting what looks like bass strings on it. What brand / type of glue should I use to re-set it?
Any tips or advice on doing the job would also be welcome.
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robert(original)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off you will have to remove the neck completely, how was it set in? was it a tongue and groove or, (most likely) a dove style joint?
either way you will want to clean the join areas, get rid of all the extra glue and whatever debris has gotten in there over the years.
and make sure that when you put it together its TIGHT!
as for glue and glueing, i use titbond III, shit is AWESOME! i have glued, necks, bodies, stairs and other bits of random guitar wankery and house bullshit with it. love that shit! you will need about 4 good clamps and you'll need, or most likely will need to make up some culls to fight various bits of the neck and body properly when you clamp it all up. Check out google images and see the different ways that folks have glued stuff back together.
generally i would use one clamp to go from the butt to the heal of the neck. or, depending on how the heel is, i would make a cull, attach it with double stick tape and use two clamps.
then a good c clamp with a large throat to tighten down the fretboard to the body by being inserted into the soundhole(insert joke here)
and one or more closer to the sound hole. it really depends on the size of clamp, and the overal fit.
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taylornutt
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an old Airline acoustic where the top has sunk in a bit and the neck needs to come off. Unfortunately it's one of those things where it's more expense to fix the guitar than the actual guitar is worth.
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tenderstems
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you planning on removing the neck? Do you have a steam set up?
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put almost no thought into how I was actually going to do all the repairs, I just thought it'd be a good learning experience... and dived in.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

robert(original) wrote:
titbond III


I'm sold.
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serfx
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dezb1 wrote:
I put almost no thought into how I was actually going to do all the repairs, I just thought it'd be a good learning experience... and dived in.


^ this is how i start projects as well..
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paul_
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use titebond liquid hide glue on neck joints and also used it to repair a mandolin my bassist found at a yard sale. You can dissolve it with a heat knife if you need to, like the old school pot-heated hide glue and the type of business acoustic luthiers get up to when repairing, plus it has a slow enough set time that you can make sure you've put the neck on properly before clamping/binding it down. Plus it's the shit to use for antique furniture if you have any, my dad used some of mine on an old grandfather clock some movers buggered. If you just want to set it and forget it other Titebonds'll do, though with acoustic instruments i'd leave my options as open as possible.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim_Nowhere wrote:
dezb1 wrote:
I put almost no thought into how, I just thought it'd be a good learning experience... and dived in.


^ this is how i start projects as well..


Funny, that's how I ended up with kids
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Addam
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an old encore acoustic, that the neck is a little loose.
I attempted to get the neck off with a steam cleaner and a kitchen knife, and failed.
Having done a little more research, i think drilling out the last fret marker and using a tube with a 'pin' for inflating footballs etc to inject the steam into the joint.

Recently after throwing it up the loft for a few years i dragged it down, tuned it to open G and play slide on it.
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Chris Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can be a pretty tricky affair. We did neck resets when I was at college and it was very rarely a straight forward job. Sometimes the problem can be the construction method used the is hidden from you til you manage to get the joint apart. In some cases we found there were dowels used either from the neck into the heel and neck block. Total pain

drilling through a fret marker and getting some steam directly into the join area, as was mentioned before, is a good method. the other, if you have a slim enough steam tube is to remove a fret the might in a better position and drill through that way.

As for using heated a knife, the knife blade has to be pretty thin. Old butter knifes are pretty good as they are more like to be good quality steel and you can generally pick them up cheap in a second hand/charity shop. You get some that are fairly thin to start with, but you'll have to grind down the blade to get it properly thin. They are pretty much essential to lift the finger board.

Got to reset the neck on an steel string I made as the neck angle is wrong and can't be set up properly. But I want to make a new neck anyway so I'm just going to saw it off near the base of the heal and chisel out the joint, so it's not really the same problem.

Is a shame as it turned out pretty good otherwise. I rushed the neck fitting to have it ready for a show. With I'd just spent the time on it and forgot about the show. Here's some picture of the fucker







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Chris Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick tip to anyone using Padauk... don't use it next to anything pale as it stains everything around it. Nightmare to do a good finish
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you're all saying is it might not be as easy as pulling the neck off and sticking it back on again.
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Chris Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pretty much... It can be relatively simple though. Could also depend on whether the neck angle needs adjustment? If it's not an expensive guitar though I'd just go for it. Firstly you need to separate the finger board from the body then deal with the neck joint. Some older guitars just have a tenon joint which is relatively easy to deal with and if the joint is lose anyway then it might pretty much pop out once the fingerboard isn't holding it in place. Another option for knifes would be to use an artist pallet knike if you can get one stiff enough or there are some for that specific job. Get them nice and hot and work them in about the edge of the fingerboard. Can take time but glue doesn't like heat so it will come off.

If you post some picture it might be easier to suggest advice?
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Chris Fleming
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, looks like there's nothing holding it on except the fingerboard. Would probably be best just to take it off to clean it up properly and then re-glue it. If it's lose then glue some thin veneers on the sides of male part of the joint and sand them down til it fits snug. I agree with paul that animal/hide glue is best. When using it it's best heat the areas to be glued. Use it generously and wipe of any excess with hot water and a rag.
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robert(original)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whaht chris said. i bet the second you got the edges with a hot putty knife and iron the whole thing would come off, 15 mins top end.
-chris, i had a buddy in school that used pauduk as a fretboard wood. it went from orange to black within a week, someone about reacting to the natural oils in his hand. either way i thought it was ugly as sin as a fretboard anyway.
I have removed a few acoustic necks, an alvarez, an arbor 12 string, a rogue, a yamaha classical. for the most part, they were all the same. and i know for the alvarez and the arbor i was able to take out the twelth fret, steam the shit out of it and take it off, but i know for at least one of them i ended up drilling small holes in the binding by the end cap to get more steam in there, ended up having to replace the binding, but i knew that from the get go.
anywho.
take that board off and watch the neck fall into your lap.
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to see if I can "borrow" some sort of pallet knife type utensil from work.
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dezb1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the guitar, more pics:




Need to replace the zero fret as it's gubbed
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cur
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is just the fretboard holding it on slap a hot cloths iron across the frets on that part of the neck.

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